#$%# the Salty Droid

excuse my French, but f*** the Salty Droid!

nothing personal, it’s just something he represents that gets my blood boiling:

moaning and bitching …

… as an excuse not to step up!


Well, it’s all inspired a bit by this video (shoutout to Andre Chaperon for the heads-up!)

is moaning and bitching playing at a high level?

no, it isn’t.

In the Internet marketing niche, people complain about the “syndicate” – ripping off with high-ticket courses aimed squarely at biz-oppers.

The question shouldn’t be “how can we out them?” or “how can I express my disgust?” …

… but rather, the question you should be asking yourself:

“how can I get what they’ve got, but do it in an ethical way?”

c’mon, you can’t tell me you wouldn’t mind “having what they’ve got” – flying first class, taking 3 months off every year, …

Hey, I too disagree strongly with Russell Brunson’s heavy-duty follow-up selling. I too think that Jeff Walker’s Product Launch Formula should not be sold to the MMO crowd. I too think ….

But, you gotta give it to them, they’re making a ton of money in the process.

And, rather than “despise” Russell, or Jeff, or … heck, I’d LOVE to meet these guys (actually, I have met quite a few of them), pick their brains, see what makes them tick.

And then come up with a way of getting the same results they’re getting in a way I find more ‘digestible’.

Look at the syndicate: “having each other’s backs”.

Is that necessarily a bad thing?

I don’t think so! as long as you’re not pushing crap round circles, that is.

So, the question for you is: how can you find a group of people who are value-minded, and who support each other.

And then step up. Study what the successful are doing, what makes them so successful.

Then take those parts that work, and get to work applying them to something really good!





  1. Hey Veit. Your entitled to your opinion. BUT…
    I have personally been ripped by some of the guys that salty goes after to expose…and they ARE scammers when they steal your money.

    How about losing $2000 to one of them? How would you feel? No product delivered, no refund…just total ignore you, taking the money and buying another business with the “scam boy” black heart blood money. Thank God for him going after these evil people. As far as the boiler room phone calls…ever had those Veit? No? Try it for size and you’ll see why they go after the week, poor and vunrable. disgusting….

    BTW I HAVE BOUGHT ALL YOUR PRODUCTS…Please stand up for those who are too weak….

    • Hey Kos,

      maybe I should highlight the bit where I say that I disapprove of what they’re doing with their marketing.

      I have ‘invested’ $2k in Product Launch Formula when I was a complete newbie, and boy, it was useless for a newbie without a list or a product or even any clue how to sell stuff online.

      I have ‘invested’ thousands on dodgy coaching, I’ve had all the phone-calls from the boiler rooms, believe you me, I’ve been there.

      All I’m saying here is this:

      don’t take the existence of “the Syndicate” and boiler rooms and IM-scams as an excuse for dumping babies, bathwater ‘n all that good stuff.

      There is a reason why they’re so successful, and it’s worth studying what they’re doing (e.g. very effective use of sales-psychology), and then use it for good, not evil.

      I’ve seen far too many people who say they want to learn how to sell, but they run the moment they sense there’s a pitch coming at the end of a seminar or a webinar.

      Fer cryin’ out loud, if you want to learn how to sell, observe what successful sellers are doing and learn from it. And if it’s unethical, then don’t do it. But don’t say “selling is evil” and use that as an excuse for not doing anything or worse – complaining and whining about those ‘evil guys’ that are responsible for your lack of success (btw, that comment wasn’t directed at you Kos)

  2. This is what your high-level Super-Secret Facebook group is all about. We’re “a group of people who are value-minded, and who support each other”. We’re currently working on a project that has the potential to make all of us some money.

    We really don’t have all the answers. Even the ‘Syndicate’ is constantly tweaking & split-testing. When they find something that works really well – they go all out – blasting their ads & sending their emails.

    I think the Salty Droid is just using his forum to his own advantage (which – hey, ain’t we all doing that?). He may or may not really care about his readers. He writes great copy – but, REALLY – if he wanted to change things – he could do it in a more effective way. He’s a smart guy. He could make the internet better if he chose to. He chooses to whine & complain.

  3. It’s easy to whine and complain from behind the screen, even anonymously; just look at forums. And it’s not high science to reverse engineer campaigns either, especially sites & campaigns that have been advertising for a while so we know what’s working. One of the easiest people to learn from is Eben Pagan -his launches are loaded lessons, no need to buy, it’s all taught before the buy button.

    Good encouragement Veit, much needed.

  4. Oh no! The Super-Secret Facebook group is no longer secret 😉 Holding out on me, Veit? I’m soooo disappointed!

    When I went to university, my favourite class was one were we had to analyze a piece of literature, then make up a series of questions to ask our peers about it. You learned as much from making up the questions as you did hearing the answers.

    I think this would be a great approach. Get a hard core group together for this kind of in-depth “guru product” analysis. Bounce ideas off each other on how to most effectively apply the principles behind the guru training to one’s own business.

    Next, make an even better product than the gurus!

    • what super-secret FB group?;-)

      one piece of feedback I keep seeing all the time is this:

      when asked to *document* in writing what people are doing/have done to promote their product or service, for most that’s the most enlightening exercise they’ve ever done.

      Asking yourself or others questions will give you more insights than any step-by-step plan ever can!



  5. Sorry Veit, I’m not with you on this one. If you don’t like reading it, why are you there? Although I don’t patronize Salty, I think a useful service is being provided.

    I think of you as a fair man with good intentions, but if you want to emulate the syndicate, just back your product wagon up to a high compression BS tank, and fill to overpressure limits. Ever since hunters first gathered to trade their wares, human nature has been to susceptible to copious amounts of snake oil. I doubt that will ever change.

    • Hey Phillip, see my response to Kos’ reply.

      Have another look at what I wrote: my lil’ rant is not about the Salty Droid – it’s about what people do with the message – it’s not constructive IMO.


  6. Hey Veit,

    Not only do I agree with what you’ve said here, I actually teach it to my clients: “Look, let’s not do what they do, but let’s understand the principles and find a way to execute them with integrity and authenticity.”

    That said, I do think it’s important to “out” the frauds because not everyone has the eye of experience to assess accurately for themselves sometimes, but it’s all about how you do it, right?

    Love what you do, man. Got a lot of your stuff.

    Keep it going.


  7. Spot on, Veit – thanks. It’s all about limited time, energy and opportunities.

    And personally, I’ve rarely been ripped off [once via Craigslist when I got to New York to find I *didn’t* have an apartment to stay in – kind of hard to dodge that once you’re in it].

    But I’ve learned from all those big guru products, up to a point. Were they the right investment at the time? Perhaps not. Did I apply everything I might have from them? Better question.


  8. Sometimes the Droid is funny, sometimes mean-spirited, sometimes just plain wacko – really bizarre wacko.

    But really he’s become a bit like the Simpsons for me – great at the beginning but I just can’t be arsed to read him any more. We all know that the high-fliers are seriously dubious but to apply the same kind of thinking to all marketers is bordering on conspiracy theory madness.

    He’s great for taking on the majority (how did selling Amazon Money Machines as Amazon Selling Machines for 3.5x the price get past him though?) but there comes a point where you have to say, “Job done” and let’s get on with some of the positive stuff that’s out there.

    • ha, I hadn’t even looked at the Amazon Selling Machines …

      it’s funny that you mention “get on with some of the positive stuff out there” – just this morning my two grumpy pre-teenage boys are at each other and I hear my wife in a rather sharp tone “if you have nothing positive to say, don’t say anything” …

  9. Gee, I never even heard of The Salty Dog until you sent me that email!
    I did a search and looked at the site. It really doesn’t interest me.
    Though I don’t see anything wrong with encouraging people to complain to the FTC, BBB etc etc when they’ve been ripped off by scammers.

    I almost lost $300 last year to a guy who had a thread on a certain famous _ Forum, and he just simply disappeared with my money. I spent days tracking him down, and when I finally found a way to communicate with him via message, I kept bugging him and threatening him with FBI, FTC, etc. Finally he paid me back. But he wouldn’t have if I hadn’t threatened him with legal action.

    But I agree, unless it’s necessary (as I believe it was in my case) it’s best not to get all caught up in downing people and etc. One’s energy is better spent learning what works and – as always – TAKING ACTION towards succeeding in your own endeavors.

  10. Alexander says:

    Been a few times @ Salty Droids site… read something, didn’t find it useful…
    merely entertaining… moved on 🙂

    See, he might have a point if it helps preventing some IM noobs buying products far above their implementation level.

    If these go to IM forums, they can learn the basic (and even advanced) stuff for free fist. When they advance, they will buy guru products anyway – as they need them.

    I was always astonished how these guys build communities of followers. It’s like they mastered the lessons from Seth Godin and Simon Sinek.

    Get on with life! Moaning and bitching does harm your biology.

    Better look at something like this:

    Cheers, Alex

  11. I just posted the following at a Salty Droid blog:

    “I agree with a lot of what you say about how there is a false idea being sold to people, that making money online is easy, that the internet is a money machine, and so on. I HATE all those WSO’s that talk about making $25k in a week or $100k your first year “if you just will buy my $9 WSO!”…

    Yeah, sure. The reason you are selling this WSO for $9 is because you are a millionaire via IM / MMO… and I suppose you just need a few thousand extra dollars for… wait a minute! You’re a f’ing MILLIONAIRE – you DON’T need to sell a $9 WSO!

    So what’s wrong with that picture??

    That said, your tagline “… you can’t make money online” is equally offensive in its clearly false logic. Plenty of people are making money online. Maybe not millions but they are making money. And yes, ANYone can do it, if they really do the research, work, studying, and apply themselves.

    Unfortunately one has to separate the wheat from the chaff in MMO, and yeah, a lot of people get scammed, a lot of people are just stupid, and a lot of people are lazy.

    My tagline would have to be “Don’t be stupid or lazy! Apply yourself to what works online, do the work, and you can make some money!””

  12. Full on, right on, Veit, man. Yeh, maybe a bunch of them are out there doing the scamming thing or maybe they just want to pounce us for WAY too much $$ for their product, but if they weren’t out there doing it, man, how could we learn the lessons we need to learn to succeed in our own biz? And like Ana says, we can all learn it for free just buy watching these dudes run their plays!

  13. Hi Viet, Do you really think they are millionaires? Do you think they could replicate their ‘success’ over and over again like real sustainable businesses do? I doubt it very much. I agree that you could learn from their tactics (which by the way has been used from day dot of marketing), but are they real strategists – those who provide clarity of thought to the direction your business is going? You may have to pay more but Business Schools are the best place to learn from – America have some amazing business growth programmes run by business schools, the UK where I’m based have them too – the good thing is that there is no BS and everything they teach is backed by 50 years of marketing research. They have proven results Don’t mess about when it comes to your business.

    Your blog is great by the way and people could learn from you.

    • Hey Conrad,

      would love to have a discussion with you – because I have a slightly different opinion:

      IMO, business schools are first and foremost THE best places for networking and making the connections that really matter later on when you’re building/running a real business – see my Princess Leia post on the value of networking, the business skills taught in most business schools are more geared towards bigger corporations.

      No doubt, there is plenty of useful material that’s market-proven, but when you look at how bad (and I mean really bad) most of the bigger companies are at engaging with their clients – I more often than not wish that they’d teach more direct response marketing from the trenches as practiced by most people in IM. (and this is not pulled out of thin air, I’ve spent my corporate years in one of the biggest corporations on this planet, and it’s mindboggling how bad they are at doing almost anything to do with the only person that really matters – the customer)

      either way, thanks for your perspective, great contribution to the discussion!


  14. Pete Morris says:

    I get your point, but Salty Droid’s “you can’t make money online” message isn’t intended to be taken 100% literally. It’s intended to be the antithesis to the fraudlent claims of the people he attacks.

    To be honest, if that message discourages some people, then those people simply shouldn’t be in business anyway. They should find a job they enjoy, for a company that provides them with security and certainty. They don’t have the correct attitude to run a business (and that’s cool, it’s certainly not for everyone).

    The kind of people who are put off so easily, tend to be the ones who litter the Internet with spam and affiliate offers that have little real world value, as well as terrible products that they flog simply in the hope that enough people won’t ask for a refund that a profit is made.

    Lets be honest, how many people who use Salty’s message as a reason not to succeed would have gone on to provide a valuable service to their customers? Very few, I’d say.

    How many would have gone on to foist yet more spam onto the Internet consuming public? Probably the majority.

    The people who really want to create value on the Internet will do that, regardless. In the mean time, Salty Droids message is doing good; it’s stopping people from getting shafted by these remorseless cheats and their fraudulent products.

    • Hey Pete, lol, I guess the same goes for my original article, which certainly wasn’t an ‘attack’ on the Salty Droid, but rather used him as an example for the main point I was making…

      I do appreciate your input – and agree with many points you’re making.

  15. IM is like the cosmetics industry. The labels promise everything, and in our hearts we know the listed ingredients amount to BS, but we buy in anyway in the hope that ‘this might be the one’. You only have to read the warrior forum for 30 seconds to see the serial purchasing mentality.
    That said, we need sites like the salty droid to remind the major players that there are eyeballs watching them and are willing to report back to the herd. Without that the online wild west would be even wilder.

  16. Veit,

    Yeah I get that you don’t like him. I appreciate someone speaking out against those that others might not. Yeah maybe he fixates on that. I’m glad I cam across your site but especially appreciate that you date your things. I find it really annoying when sites leave the date out, to me that is a large scame (oh wait sorrry about the negativity)..
    And yes it doesn’t hurt to learn from any marketer, I just don’t have the desire to scam people like so many IMers do, even the big name ones. They have no integrity except they might give refunds.

  17. Nonsense.

    Why does the question have to be about getting what they’ve got in the first place? Why does everything have to be about productivity and “playing at a high level” (whatever that is)? We need someone who exposes scams for what they are. We need another person trying to get what “they’ve” got like we need another book on the law of attraction or another life coach.

    Trying to get what they’ve got isn’t necessarily going to happen for everyone. Some might, but others will fail. Not everyone is cut out to get what the’ve got. Varying levels of talent, ability, available capital all come into play.

    • Hey Tom,

      I’ll respectfully disagree. … or let’s put it this way:

      the assumption behind my post was:

      *IF* you are aiming for what the gurus have/do, then, don’t slam them, instead look at the principles that lead to their success, and model what you like.

      If you don’t even want what they have or the courses they want to sell you, no point moaning and complaining.

      In most cases the programs (you call them scams) are not scams.

      As you point out: some might, but others will fail.

      Granted, the sales-material often enough suggests that anybody can succeed (theoretically they probably could), but in reality you have to be willing to climb over a ton of obstacles, and – more importantly – view this whole marketing thing as a skill you want to MASTER. And that requires practice. Which is the thing that most people aren’t willing to do (and which is hence omitted in the sales-letter).

      But, that’s pretty much the essence of most of today’s advertising:

      give people what they want, and omit the fact that in order to get X, you’ll have to bust your backside….

      Want to pull hot women? Just get this magic deodorant! (er, no, you’re gonna have to work on your social skills too…)

      Want to win races? Just buy this really expensive triathlon bike! (er, ….)

      Want to …

      having said all that, I’m 100% on board with the “another book on law of attraction” … it’s not “personal magic”, but “personal development”. And development is the result of *work*!

      over’n out


  18. I see. Makes sense for the most part, but as long as people are being taken in, then there is a point to moaning and complaining. And yeah, a huge problem is the implication that anyone can have the life their dreams by following the program, whatever it may be.

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